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Reorganizing Pokémon pages

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Revision as of 17:15, September 13, 2013 by Rainbow Shifter (Talk | contribs)

Forums: Index Watercooler Reorganizing Pokémon pages


Hi there. As a former user of this wiki, during my times of editing here, I was always bothered by the fact that the Pokémon articles were rather disorganized and don't correspond with each other. Before I get into the subject, I know the wiki is going through a lot of change, and this is really not the perfect time to suggest a layout for articles when they are more important matters that need to be dealt with; this is for users who just want to edit the wiki and not get involved with discussions or for those who have free time and want to do something.

Anyways, I have made my decision to suggest a layout for the articles. Keep in mind, this is my opinion - I don't mind criticism, in fact I recommend some criticism as it would benefit the wiki a lot.

The Pokémon articles are a crucial part of the wiki - it is very important to keep these updated and organized. With it being cluttered and... eww..., you're risking the wiki's popularity as these will often be the first thing viewers will look at. With Generation VI on their way, new Pokémon are being revealed. It is the perfect time to create a layout before the wiki ends up doing more work after all the new Pokémon are revealed. Plus, if the wiki has a layout created, creating the articles would be a breeze and all the focus would only really be at the other 649 Pokémon (less work).

Okay, this ends the wall of text (but be warned for more). Here are my suggestions. At the end, I shall discuss the importance of each section.

(Pokémon templates, such as the prev/next and Pokébox)

Short summary of the Pokémon

==Biology==
===Physiology===

===Abilities===

===Behavior===

===Habitat===

===Gender differences===

==Evolution==

==Game data==
===Statistics===

===Pokédex entries===
(including side-game)

===Locations===
(including side-game)

===Learnset===
====Leveling====

====TM and HM====

====Egg moves====

====Tutoring====

====Special moves====

===Sprites===

==Appearances==
===Anime appearances===

===Manga appearances===

===TCG appearances===

===Other appearances===

==Trivia==

===Etymology===

===Names in other languages===

==Gallery==

==References==

(navigation templates)

This is a very standard layout, and it's very hard - for me anyways - to differentiate with other competing wikis. Changing the words might help, but for now, I'll just go with the flow, since I'm not the best at vocabulary.

What these sections represent:

  • The first bit (prev/next and Pokébox) are pretty explanatory
  • The short summary should only ever include the major points of the subject. It should not include other things that are better off in other sections (such as "Pikachu is one of the main Pokémon in the anime", which is better off mentioned in the anime section). Basically, it should only include: the name, typing, and evolution. Often times, other major points such as being a mascot (Pikachu) or version mascot could be listed here.
  • Biology, a very detailed description of who the Pokémon is (Physiology), its abilities, behavior, habitat, gender differences, and evolution line. The "Physiology", "Behavior", and "Habitat" usually come in the Pokédex entries.
    • I wasn't sure if "Evolution" should be under Biology or under its own section. I'll leave that up to you. Furthermore, regardless of who the Pokémon is, whether it has an evolution or none, this should always be listed to correspond with other articles.
  • Game data (self-explanatory)
    • Firstly, I wasn't sure if this should be the first point of appearances. It's a big section, and sometimes it's better to put the big sections last. But also, after all, it is the first thing introduced in the whole franchise. Plus, it differentiates with other wikis. Opinions on this? Please don't hesitate to respond.
    • Basically anything that is in the Pokémon series; other games such as Smash Bros. should belong in the "Other appearances" section
    • Statistics: base stats (though it's already mentioned in the Pokébox, so ignore), side-game stats and info, held items, and possibly type effectiveness
    • Pokédex entries (self-explanatory): main and side game entries
    • Locations (self-explanatory): main and side game locations
    • Learnset (self-explanatory):
      • Level up moves (I believe all learnsets should be merged together as it could be a hassle trying to navigate to other pages, especially for slower computers or people who aren't very good at navigating through other pages)
      • TM and HM (same as leveling)
      • Egg moves (same)
      • Tutoring (same)
      • Special moves: basically the Pokémon given out in events, who are given moves that are normally not learnable by other means. This section does not have to be placed if the Pokémon doesn't have any special moves.
    • Sprites (self-explanatory)
  • Anime appearances (self-exp)
  • Manga appearances (not sure if the wiki still does Manga stuff)
  • TCG appearances (not sure if TCG stuff are even in the wiki)
  • Other appearances: basically other video games (Smash Bros.), other cartoons (not the anime), etc.
  • Trivia (self-exp)
    • Etymology: who the Pokémon is based off in the real world, name of origin, etc.
    • Names in other languages (self-exp): section name could be shortened
  • Gallery (self-exp)
  • References (self-exp)
  • Nav templates

There are sections that could be place elsewhere (specifically the "Game data" section). I just wasn't sure where or if this is better. I don't know. Basically, I just listed these in the order of importance (biology, games, anime, all the way to the least important sections). This is my suggestion. Any criticism, please say something. Bermuda • Triangle • 18:14,7/8/2013

Project discussion

It looks quite long, and I fear most of it would be ignored. Plus, some templates might need re-organization to have it look better. Maybe there needs a team of users to proceed this in action, like a Project. Energy X 18:41, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

How strange! Just this morning I started working on a guide for the layout of pages on the wiki because it seems to be a problem. I shall take your ideas and the support of it from users and possibly use it in the proposed guide (as I said I started it this morning on my work page and due to this it is very incomplete). Rainbow Shifter 18:46, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

This is something that should be done after the games come out and there's more of a calm state in the wiki for us to focus on this. Currently we should be more focused on making sure we get all the information about the pokemon that are being released. Were we to go through with this we should not do so until the game comes out. – Jazzi (talk) 19:48, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

By waiting until the games release, you would have wasted those 3 months we are given from revamping the most viewed and essential articles of the wiki. The Pokémon articles are as important as Pokémon X and Y. By revamping the 649 Pokémon articles we have now, there would be more focus on X/Y content after the games release. Keep in mind that even after the games release, the other 649 Pokémon articles need to be updated with X/Y content; you might as well revamp other parts of the articles now so there's less work that needs to be done in the future. Not to mention if there is a layout already in hand, creating new Pokémon articles would be a breeze where you could simply just copy and paste the layout into the new articles. Also, there are users out there, such as myself, who would like to help out in accomplishing this goal. Bermuda • Triangle • 22:10,7/8/2013

Can you tell us how many users? A handful wouldn't be a good force, a pack should be enough. Energy X 22:22, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

I think I like the idea for adding the Etymology and Names in other languages sections might work out on the wiki, I do really think that theres about a few Etymology stuff from Trivias should be consider to be moved Etymology section.{{SUBST:User:King Marth 64/Sig}} 22:52, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

One shouldn't look at the amount of users working on a project. Each person works at a different pace. But this is not the point of the forum. The point is to create a layout and use it in the time being before the new games arrive. If one were to work on 20 Pokémon articles per day, this project can be finished in approximately 30-40 days, 10 would be at least 2 months. Getting it done ASAP is the best way to improve the contents of the wiki, and I might actually finally use this wiki as a source of information, no offense btw. Bermuda • Triangle • 00:57,7/9/2013

You're not selling me on anything when I can't figure out what message goes to what user seeing as it doesn't indent anywhere. And if you "might actually finally use this wiki as a source of information", perhaps you shouldn't have become an admin if you were going to retire, come back, and be bitter. – Jazzi (talk) 01:22, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

I speak for myself when I say this: I'm not objective to this layout, in fact it's a good layout and it would benefit our articles. However, without wanting to get in depth, it's very unlikely I can do much on this project because I've gotten sick again. – Jazzi (talk) 01:32, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
I apologize for getting out of context. Since it is summer vacation for me (and possibly until late September), I have become re-active in other wikis that I went on hiatus (though there isn't much work since one of them was canceled indefinitely). I could potentially be a "replacement Jazzi" and put forth the work. I have my interest on Pokémon right now, and I have decided to put all my work on Pokémon (specifically only on the Pokémon articles). These articles are a major concern to me. By getting it out of the way before the new games release, there's less work that needs to be done. Plus with "Pokemon Wiki" being the first website when searched on Google, it's highly possible that most new users come here first. Therefore, putting up a good impression now can allow those new users to stay and use this as a source of information regarding the new games. After all, the point of making a wiki is to be resourceful; and by being resourceful, you'll have more users, which some may consider joining the wiki. Bermuda • Triangle • 02:17,7/9/2013
I would be happy to help on this eitherway as to be honest most of my edits go towards fixing the layout if it is not correct. I too am on Summer Vacation for the next nine weeks so to be honest I don't really have much else to do. Rainbow Shifter 08:18, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
If I can have some support on starting this project, I will be happy enough to start within today or tomorrow. Bermuda • Triangle • 20:12,7/9/2013
Oh and if supported by the community may I have your permission to copy and paste the layout and info into the proposed Layout Guide? Rainbow Shifter 21:47, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
Furthermore, I would like your opinions on the placement of "Evolution" section. Is it in the right place? Would "Evolution" be better off in its own section or along with the Biology? Also, are any of the section names appropriate? If yes, please change it to differ from other wikis. :P I'm not great at vocabulary. Anything else that needs to be adjusted? Also, is anyone planning to change the templates? I don't mind any changes to the templates since it's not important to me right now as the first step is to re-format the articles. Bermuda • Triangle • 23:03,7/9/2013

What does Physiology and Behavior cover? And I don't think names should be covered, a interwiki link should suffice. Also, it would be better to shorten the Appearances, like this:

...

==Appearances==
===Anime===

===Manga===

===TCG===

===Other===
"Physiology" is the study of the functions of living organisms and their parts. Basically, you're explaining what the Pokémon is like and their appearance. The "Behavior" is how the Pokémon acts (ie: Leavanny being parental and always making clothes for small Pokémon); this bit is usually taken from the Pokédex. As for the names, not all the wikis are completely done or active enough to add all of the Pokémon; though, I don't know. They're just names and is usually not that important, so you can potentially leave that out until someone gets to it. Bermuda • Triangle • 02:50,7/10/2013
Well I was thinking of leaving Evolution under its own heading because thats what we do already and it works pretty well. Also I am thinking of omitting the "In the TCG" section due to the fact that we don't really do TCG information here. I mean, I would like to but I think it would be better to wait until everything is cleaned up before starting any new type of pages. Rainbow Shifter 11:01, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, half of the stuff on the layout aren't available yet. The only real focus we have to do on the layout is complete the "Biology" and "Game data" sections as those are the main info. The "Anime appearances" is already available to us so all we have to do is just move it to the appropriate section. So that leaves us with much easier work, but it still is a lot of work because of learnsets, and we could do something different from Bulba (who uses multiple pages for learnsets). Furthermore, the side-game data could be omitted too. Finalization of the revamp is when we add all the info, and that's when we finish the main stuff. Bermuda • Triangle • 16:12,7/10/2013

Aside from my vacation, I'll be able to help out with this. – Jazzi (talk) 16:52, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Article discussion

Would it be wise to break apart some tasks, such as one works on Biology, one works on Game data, another on learnsets, etc.? It might be too much work to handle for one article, so breaking it apart might make it easier on one user + they'll be familiar with the structure of their department (ie: learnset templates). I'll be gladly to take my part in the learnset section. I'm not so great at describing Pokémon (excuse me for my low vocabulary T_T). Anyways, for those who have too much time on their hands, you could reformat the articles by moving sections around. Bermuda • Triangle • 19:55,7/11/2013

Template changes and discussion

PokéBox

Are the templates going to be changed? I noticed a few errors on Template:PokéBox with the Fairy coloring, but it's locked so I can't fix it. But I also noticed that on its talk page that it's going to be updated - but that was a month ago. Has that ever been pushed forward? If it's not, the template should look clean for the time being so it's not all awkward for Fairy Pokémon. Also, what was the idea of changing the template? Is it going to be like how I created a new PokéBox for the new wiki, this design, albeit a little different? Personally, I still like the design, and I'll be happy enough to update it so it differs from the new wiki. Bermuda • Triangle • 16:37,7/11/2013

Yes, the templates are going to be changed. I was in the process of changing it but I had things I had to worry about. And no, I'd prefer the one that you designed for Marriland to not be used. I've been meaning to continue updating the templates, and various other things here, however I have a few things that I have to do: A Link Between Worlds is in the making so I have to do some things at Zeldapedia. X and Y are coming out, I have things to do here. In addition to various updates I've been trying to do. It's also my summer vacation, and I've a few games I want to play. So... – Jazzi (talk) 16:58, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Very well. While we're on the subject of PokéBox, in the meantime, could you double check it to add the Fairy coloring to the appropriate part as it has been misplaced into the "color" part rather than "background". Also, the text-color of the headers are the same color as the background color, so it would need to be changed into a darker color. Bermuda • Triangle • 17:04,7/11/2013
I will be fixing it when the template gets updated. – Jazzi (talk) 17:33, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
As much as I didn't want to do this, I did it anyways: User:Bermuda/Sandbox5. The info is pretty generic to other wikis, and there's really no way to differentiate what goes on the template, other than where to place the info on the template. The style, I just went with my flow and creative juices; I kept the full-width-page design to keep it different from other wikis. I don't expect it to be used. Just wanted to share it, incase you need some inspiration, or something. It's just a design, so there's no parameters or anything like that. Bermuda • Triangle • 17:09,7/14/2013
It's actually really nice, I prefer the one on top over the one on bottom 100%. If you could adjust it so that it works with the colors for the template, if you do want it to be used for an actual template, then it could be used. We would have to adjust the anime infoboxes though. – Jazzi (talk) 18:30, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I'll gladly work on it later today. In the meantime, usually there's a disagreement on one part of the templates I make, so if you spot anything that you disagree on, then by all means share it with me and I'll try to work around it. I could see something about the Gender part (wasn't sure if I should go with what I had on the sandbox or keep the way it has been). Also, for the pronunciation, wasn't sure where to put that since I tried to make sure it wasn't like how Marriland did it with the pronunciation under the artwork. I'll also work on the anime template (I'll try to just change the design, so there wouldn't be any change to any pages). Bermuda • Triangle • 18:49,7/14/2013
I think everything is good. The only thing is egg groups should be on different lines, which is an easy fix. I think we should just get rid of the pronunciation because there's always room for that to be wrong. – Jazzi (talk) 19:35, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
I got everything changed. I tested it out to see what will be different after the change, User:Bermuda/Test. Everything should be intact and all the major stuff should be already added. The minor things might need to be changed or added. I've listed what has been added, changed, or removed. Other than that, all the parameters are the same, except weight and height. In the process that this does go through, "backcolor" and "border" need to be removed as they have been replaced with "type" and "type2", and also the "type" section needs to be adjusted due to the old style using Template:Type and the new style has the template already added. Also, I apologize for doing this because you were the one who was going to do it. I do this to keep my creativity going, or when I'm bored. :P Bermuda • Triangle • 22:13,7/14/2013
Perfectly okay. I've been caught up in a few things... New Leaf and Majora's Mask... – Jazzi (talk) 22:56, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

It would be wise to insert this template as well. It seems unecessary to have it split into two separate templates. Energy X 23:44, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, the final approval of this would be to edit the old one and replace with the new one on Template:PokéBox. Also, can you temporarily remove the protection in case I ever need to adjust something?
@Energy X: I'm not so sure about that. It's already in the articles, so I don't think it's necessary. Plus, it's really simple to add to an article anyways. IMO, I believe it should be treated as a separate template. But if anyone objects, well okay. Bermuda • Triangle • 00:38,7/15/2013
I personally think it'd be good to have them both in one template, but I'm also one for being lazy. And with that template, it goes on both the top and the bottom, so yeah, would probably be best to keep it separate. – Jazzi (talk) 08:41, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
TL;DR, read bold.
The Ground Pokémon category seems to work now, but the only problem is that it was added to every other Pokémon page. But good news, we can simply fix that like what I did to the Gloom page. So after we fix the templates, the Ground Pokémon category should be gone from non-Ground Pokémon pages.
Also, the only real problem with the new style is the "Single and Dual-type" categories. I'm not familiar with #pos, and hopefully we can resolve this issue. I have a feeling we'll have to manually insert those categories however.
Thirdly, since Body style has been added, the Body style categories can be added to the template; all we need are the body style images.
The Evolution categories are now useless in the template since the "evofrom" and "evointo" were removed. But we can simply resolve that issue by making an Evolution template and having those categories added.
Lastly, the Region categories. I see no point in them. For one thing, they're a duplicate from the Generation categories. Secondly, users might confuse it with a category about "Pokémon that appear in Kanto, etc." I might re-add the "gen" parameter somewhere on the template, so the Generation categories are still operational.
Other than that, everything should be working! We can begin fixing things. ^_^ But before we fix it, we need to move the "stat" stuff, and I'm currently making a template for it. EDIT: I'm keeping the stats stuff on the template until we can make a PokéBox template for it (meaning I won't remove the info on the template until we can get a template for it). Kind of stuck on how we could display the statistics section (artist block, yeah), since it'll have more than just Pokémon stats (Pokeathlon stats, side-game stats, etc.). Plus, as I have mentioned on #Article discussion, I think it would be better to separate sections to a user, so it's not too much work to handle on one user doing every section (plus, they'll be more familiar with their department). I kind of want to get with the Learnset section asap, since I'll have to go through page to page finding info, moving the template from another page, adjusting, and/or tagging a learnset page for deletion (such as Bulbasaur/Learnset Generation I). Bermuda • Triangle • 20:08,7/15/2013

Learnsets

Permission to use these templates (well soon-to-be templates). I've also updated the looks for the "Leveling" template to match with the others. Bermuda • Triangle • 21:36,7/11/2013

Those templates will have to be adjusted after the PokéBox template is adjusted. So don't implement them yet, since that'd be a waste. – Jazzi (talk) 22:00, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
With the template finished, I've made some adjustments to the learnset templates. I haven't implemented them as templates yet, so before I start with my part of the project, is there anything that the learnset templates need? I'm adding contest category stuff too since I didn't add it. Bermuda • Triangle • 23:02,7/15/2013

Pages with Missing Templates

I've seen some pages, especially the move pages, where they do not have their required templates. Something should be done about this. I'm pretty sure the viewers will be completely confused about this.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 21:31, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Voting (+4)

This has been approved Support Support: Well, the deal is that the sooner we are, the less work we need to do. In addition, people can follow the examples from other pages if they do not know what kind of layout they want to write for Gen. VI Pokémon. Energy X 21:05, July 9, 2013 (UTC) Support Support: Per my comments above. Rainbow Shifter 21:45, July 9, 2013 (UTC) Support Support: I think this might work out.{{SUBST:User:King Marth 64/Sig}} 03:05, July 10, 2013 (UTC) Support Support: While I can't help with it, you have my permission to go through with it. – Jazzi (talk) 13:14, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

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